Are you all insane? None of these “questions” matter. It’s simple. Nasty people(I hesitate to use the term) are doing whatever they can to murder Jewish men, women, and children. And lots more nasty people support them. End of story. Jews have a right and an obligation to do whatever is necessary to stay alive. If you’re Jewish you should know this by now.
Kindly link me the ‘history’ I have missed. I read about 8- 10 hours per day. Multi-sides of current history as well massive amounts of earlier history, focusing on mid 1800’s thru current, with special attention to 1920-1950. Please change my mind about whatever you think my simple assessment has gone askew.
. . . "When does "liberal Zionism" become so detached from "Israel as it is" that it's
. . . indistinguishable from non-Zionism ?"
has become very disturbing, to lots of us.
I don't think of myself as an "anti-Zionist", or "non-Zionist", but I probably fail many litmus tests for "Zionism" that most of the Jewish community wants to use.
An analogy is a family situation which is so toxic, that a member decides to declare independence from it -- "Your people are not my people, and your God is not my God."
There's a recent substack post about this that's worth reading, It has more coherence and more historical context than I can supply:
I think that the test for Zionism is do you believe the state of Israel has a right to exist? Period. I say this as a religious Jewish person who feels excluded from the leftist spaces I used to occupy. Not do you like Netanyahu, do you support West Bank settlements, do you think Likud is a moral party. I don’t understand a) why there a debate about whether a country that exists and has 9 million actual people living in it “should” exist, and b) why no other countries with horrific right wing leaders and war crimes are having their legitimacy questioned. I say this as someone who lives in a homogenous blue part of the country and belongs to a non-Zionist synagogue, so feel free to take with a grain of salt. My communities might not look like others. But Trump, Putin and Netanyahu are all cut from the same cloth. Why is no one questioning USA or Russia’s right to exist, or calling Americans or Russians all baby killers? This probably sounds like a “bad faith” argument, but I am genuinely interested in any answers that aren’t just broad strokes critical theory.
Standing Together. So inspiring! They need support
Are you all insane? None of these “questions” matter. It’s simple. Nasty people(I hesitate to use the term) are doing whatever they can to murder Jewish men, women, and children. And lots more nasty people support them. End of story. Jews have a right and an obligation to do whatever is necessary to stay alive. If you’re Jewish you should know this by now.
Please read some history. Including what is happening right now.
Kindly link me the ‘history’ I have missed. I read about 8- 10 hours per day. Multi-sides of current history as well massive amounts of earlier history, focusing on mid 1800’s thru current, with special attention to 1920-1950. Please change my mind about whatever you think my simple assessment has gone askew.
The question:
. . . "When does "liberal Zionism" become so detached from "Israel as it is" that it's
. . . indistinguishable from non-Zionism ?"
has become very disturbing, to lots of us.
I don't think of myself as an "anti-Zionist", or "non-Zionist", but I probably fail many litmus tests for "Zionism" that most of the Jewish community wants to use.
An analogy is a family situation which is so toxic, that a member decides to declare independence from it -- "Your people are not my people, and your God is not my God."
There's a recent substack post about this that's worth reading, It has more coherence and more historical context than I can supply:
https://substack.com/@shaielbenephraim/note/p-167761716?r=1uvrb3
. Charles Cohen
I think that the test for Zionism is do you believe the state of Israel has a right to exist? Period. I say this as a religious Jewish person who feels excluded from the leftist spaces I used to occupy. Not do you like Netanyahu, do you support West Bank settlements, do you think Likud is a moral party. I don’t understand a) why there a debate about whether a country that exists and has 9 million actual people living in it “should” exist, and b) why no other countries with horrific right wing leaders and war crimes are having their legitimacy questioned. I say this as someone who lives in a homogenous blue part of the country and belongs to a non-Zionist synagogue, so feel free to take with a grain of salt. My communities might not look like others. But Trump, Putin and Netanyahu are all cut from the same cloth. Why is no one questioning USA or Russia’s right to exist, or calling Americans or Russians all baby killers? This probably sounds like a “bad faith” argument, but I am genuinely interested in any answers that aren’t just broad strokes critical theory.
These are good questions. I’ve often wondered the same things.
I am very impressed by the work being done by Standing Together
עומדים ביחד. (Full disclosure, some of my family are active with the organization.)
I’m impressed by them too